MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Factory Knife Customization & Mid-Tech Boards > Randall Knives Forum

Randall Knives Forum Discuss Randall Knives

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-05-2015, 06:39 AM
samg's Avatar
samg samg is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Matthews NC
Posts: 666
WW2 Model 2 on ebay

There is an offering for an early Randall model 2 on eBay

http://m.ebay.com/itm/231738917474?_mwBanner=1

There is an interesting shade around the hilt that makes the hilt look discolored. Any ideas what this may be?







Thanks, Sam
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-05-2015, 08:38 AM
samg's Avatar
samg samg is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Matthews NC
Posts: 666
Interesting to see the forward stamp on these early Randall's. The blade flat was much smaller then. Any other observations?




Thanks, Sam G
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:10 PM
cochise cochise is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 19
I think it is fake, the leather handle is not right. the color on the hilt could be a bad solder job, too much heat discolored the brass. I don't know for sure without looking at it in person.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-05-2015, 04:11 PM
samg's Avatar
samg samg is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Matthews NC
Posts: 666
It's interesting that you mention the solder job. II don't think solder work was Bos gift from what I've heard.



What is it about the leather that makes you feel that it may be a fake Cochise?

Thanks, Sam
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-05-2015, 09:33 PM
Jacknola's Avatar
Jacknola Jacknola is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 651
Well, it has an odd feel, but I think it is authentic. The handle has seen linear wear as have the spacers... which is a little odd... but the spacers LOOK Ok. The discolor may just be tarnish... the brass nut on the hilt is also pretty corroded. I'll see if I can raise BoBlade... he is the guy who could help here.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-05-2015, 09:42 PM
TexasJack's Avatar
TexasJack TexasJack is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 2,919
The quality makes me wonder if it's a fake. I am NOT an expert on Randall knives or could even pretend to be. I'm just old and jaded.

The discoloration may be from trying to clean off all the corrosion. Looks like they did a lot of cleanup on the blade as well. Oddly, the maker's stamp wasn't affected by all the corrosion that ate everything else up. Or did they deepen the mark a bit?

My in-laws are in the antique business and they tell me the very worst thing you can do to any antique is to try to clean it.


__________________
God bless Texas! Now let's secede!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-06-2015, 11:59 AM
Jacknola's Avatar
Jacknola Jacknola is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 651
The blade has been double stamped, which is not that unusual. But, the lower line doesn't seem to align all that well with the upper line. This is what causes a question mark in my mind because I cannot imagine a mechanical method that would produce this result, or why it would be employed. It may just be an illusion of sorts.

BoBlade is the man we need....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-06-2015, 05:29 PM
samg's Avatar
samg samg is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Matthews NC
Posts: 666
Interesting that you mentioned the stamp Jack, good eye.. Here is a good close-up of it, and its definitely crooked.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-06-2015, 05:48 PM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 955
Hi Jack,

I haven't checked the forum of late, so David called and gave me a heads up on this one. There aren't that many WWII stilettos with the stamp on the blade to compare this one to. I've only owned one and it's in Sheldon's book on page 18:



The ONE thing that all blade stamped stilettos I have seen have had in common are wrist thong links (and not through holes) because the blade stamping was early. I can refer to others as well: Pages 33,35, 37 and 39 in Bob Hunt's first book "Randall Fighting Knives in Wartime" and page 119 in his 2nd book "Randall Military Models". However, just because I haven't seen a blade stamped stiletto with a through hole doesn't mean that they don't exist. I don't think anyone knows for sure when stiletto stamping switched to the ricasso and when links phased out.

There are some other "oddities" that concern me a bit:

1. The condition of the spacers and leather washers are MUCH better than the condition of the blade. However, this could easily be explained away if the blade was stored in the sheath.
2. The discoloration of the hilt (as was mentioned). IMO there is no way to determine if this was caused by high heat or not.
3. The fact it doesn't have an accompanying period sheath.

I am OK with the spacers and the stamp.

If I had to make a guess, I would say it's legit. But like Cochise, I would have to have it in hand to make a determination with any degree of confidence.

Best,

Ron
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-07-2015, 02:58 PM
Jacknola's Avatar
Jacknola Jacknola is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 651
Good stuff Ron, thanks. I've closely examined the stamp and I think it is legit, for what that is worth. It is a double stamp and the shape of the blade where it is stamped is concave, so it is possible the misalignment is an optical illusion. It is also possible that the two lines were stamped separately because the concavity would have precluded getting a good strike with the whole stamp.

My main question is the spacers. The look legit but were WWII spacers like this?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-07-2015, 03:52 PM
samg's Avatar
samg samg is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Matthews NC
Posts: 666
Hi Jack. I am a bit confused about your statement about the stamp. If I am not mistaken, the entire stamp, both lines and scimitars are all part of one stamp, not 2 on separate stamps.

Here is a picture of the stamping process on page 19 of Pete Hamilton's book.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-07-2015, 05:28 PM
Jacknola's Avatar
Jacknola Jacknola is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 651


Sam, this is what I'm talking about. This stamp was struck twice. You can clearly see it on the left side top, but also on the right side in the scimitars. And the strikes were not parallel to each other but at an angle...look at the strike of the scimitars on the left and the R of Randall.

Furthermore, what is interesting is that the two strikes of the stamp may possibly have done with different dies, possibly even different size, though it would take some overlay work to confirm that.

Also, one strike was apparently more solid on the top line and one more solid on the bottom which gives the whole ensemble an off-center look. I speculate that the second strike was at an angle because the first strike did not imprint the top line solidly because of the concavity.

But if you REALLY blow up the picture, you can see that both stamps look good. I doubt that a counterfeiter would go to this trouble. Regards...

PS I'm not really qualified to pass judgement on WWII knives, but with my limited knowledge, this blade looks pretty legit.

Last edited by Jacknola; 11-07-2015 at 05:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-07-2015, 06:11 PM
samg's Avatar
samg samg is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Matthews NC
Posts: 666
Well, we know that Bo ordered the 2nd stamp in 1943. Looking at the blown up stamp, look closely at the "A" in RANDALL, the shallower what looks like background A seems to cross over the top of the dominant deeper A. This appears to me to be the case on the RANDA letters. Look close and you see that lighter strike is on top! How much sense does that make?

I would love someone from the shop to weigh in on this.

Regards, Sam
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-07-2015, 06:50 PM
Jacknola's Avatar
Jacknola Jacknola is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 651
Quote:
I would love someone from the shop to weigh in on this.
Be careful what you wish for LOL.

The picture you show is of the power stamp. In WwII and for many years the stamp was applied by hand with a hand-held stamp die and a hammer.

The stamping progression on this blade is a relatively simple thing to visualize. The stamp was struck twice. First strike was parallel to the spine of the blade but only the bottom portion of the stamp was clear. Because of the concave shape of the blade the top part of the stamp was not square to the metal and was thus only partially visible because of the angle.

The second strike delivered seconds after the first. The stamp was slightly canted, no longer parallel to the spine.. and the orientation of the stamp was so that the top portion was square to the metal, and the bottom portion at an angle because of the concavity.

Hence you have two stamps, one that was clear on the top but light on the bottom, and one that was the obverse. I don't have my engineering graphics tools here at home or I would draw a picture, but is all clear at least to my compulsive engineering mind.

Regards.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-07-2015, 09:41 PM
samg's Avatar
samg samg is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Matthews NC
Posts: 666
Your right Jack about watching what you wish for.
Anyhow, I do see your point about how the stamp was struck twice. Heavier pressure on top line (RANDALL MADE)first strike, heavier pressure on bottom line (ORLANDO, FLA.) on second strike, resulting in
lighter RANDALL MADE strike on top of the heavier strike top line.

Much easier to see it and make sense of it in your mind than it is trying to describe it in words.

I have taken a stamp from one of my WW2 Hunters, sized it as close as I can to the Stilettos stamp, for comparison.

Now if we could just make sense of the discoloration on the hilt. It's almost as if there was a sleeve of some sort over the handle, resting on the hilt for quite some time.







Regards, Sam G
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
angle, antique, bee, blade, book, brass, common, flat, hand, handle, heat, knife, knives, leather, make, man, military, post, randall, sheath, solder, spacers, stamps, ww2, wwii


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Model of the Week (Week 3 Model 3) BoBlade Randall Knives Forum 62 12-05-2019 04:06 AM
"Model of the Week (Week 5 Model 5) Moosehead Randall Knives Forum 43 08-29-2018 12:17 PM
"model of the week" model #12 (big and little Bear Bowies) Seussbrother Randall Knives Forum 31 02-14-2017 07:26 AM
Goo on EBay e.kaye The Outpost 9 08-21-2007 07:33 AM
Cool - Model #1 APFK With A Model #25 Handle tunefinK Randall Knives Forum 2 10-10-2006 06:16 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:32 PM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved