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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 10-22-2012, 05:00 AM
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Newbie Intro & Question

Good Day All!

Long time lurker and first post,
Im a 27 year old Fitter/Machinist from Australia. Long time knife fan and collector and have partially completed my first blade!
My question is regarding the finish of the knife before Heat Treatment. After the photo I have hand rubbed it to 800 grit finish to remove deep scratches. Will this be ok to send off to HT? I have noticed most makers just give them a "rough" grind up before HT and finish it later because of the finish that the HT leaves.
The edge is down to 30 thou.
Sandvik 12c27 4mm
2.5 inch blade length
5 3/8 overall length
Full flat grind leaf shaped blade
Scales are to be black linen micarta
6mm 316 SS pins
and hope to have it at 58RHC when complete.
Made entirely in my backyard with a hacksaw and files/sandpaper and a pistol drill.
20121022_164100
Photobucket

Thanks in advance for any help,
Next photo will be of the completed knife!
Cheers
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:10 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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That's much cleaner than it needs to be but no worries there. The edge thickness is about right too. Welcome to the forum!


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  #3  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:41 AM
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DwaneOliver DwaneOliver is offline
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Yea welcome to the forum.

I'm not familiar with that steel , is it a oil or air hardening steel.
If its oil hardening ,your going to be pissed when you get it back , its going to be nasty, and you'll have to start bach at an aggressive grit to get the scale off.
If its air hardening , you'll be pleasently surprised at how close you are to being ready for handles.

Are you going to use pins in your handles?
I ask because the holes in the handle are kind of ......mixed up. Maybe I'm just crosseyed this morning , IDK
Having extra holes is a good thing , it reduces weight and let the epoxy "communicate" between sides.

Good luck

Dwane


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  #4  
Old 10-22-2012, 12:29 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Looks good but, as Ray said, you really don't need to take it out to that fine of grit before heat treating as you will have to go back over it later with a courser grit.

Sandvik 12c27 is a medium carbon stainless steel that was developed as a blade steel and used by commercial knife makers, such as Mora. Our closest equivalent is 440A. It's a pretty simple alloy as far as stainless steels go. It has a nice secondary hardening peak at about 500? C. on the tempering curve but there is a note in the data the I found that says that it also leads to increased brittleness. Anyway, you can get slightly better hardness without the increase in the brittleness at 175? C. Cooling rates will effect the level of retained austinite and stain resistance. It is recommended that the steel be cooled as rapidly as possible and oil quenching is recommended. You can go to the Sandvik site and look up more heat treating data.

Then there is the more standard stuff. Too high of an austinizing temperature will cause coarsening of the grain and too slow cooling, as in critical annealing, will cause carbide segregation. Watch the over heating, even though it does require an austinizing temperature of 1080? C. there is no vanadium to put a drag on grain growth so don't soak at temperature too long. A controlled oven is just about required to austinize stainless steels but this alloy should be able to be tempered in the kitchen oven or a toaster oven.

Doug


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Last edited by Doug Lester; 10-22-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:29 PM
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Wow thanks for the responses fella's!
Ray it appears that we share the same surname, & initial! so thank you from another R.Rogers!
Dwayne, yes i will be using 6mm Stainless pins, the two holes set furthest apart are pin holes, the rest are like you said. For the epoxy to "communicate" and for some weight loss.
Doug thank you for the very detailed info. great stuff! For this blade im going to send it to a reputable Heat Treaters, they were recomended from the place i got the steel. I will move on to my own HT in the next few blades . I may even get my self a grinder too. Its a very time consuming hobby using just a file. Enjoying it a lot i must say. Already have started to cut out my next blank- a small hdden tang Bowie using a piece of local Fallow Stag Antler for the handle.
Cheers
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:43 PM
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Well, how about that? We're not the only "R.Rogers" that make knives, I believe I have heard of at least two others. This is a good example of why we need to put our name AND our location in our knives' logo ....


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Old 10-23-2012, 08:03 PM
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If you wash the blade well with soap an water after the HT process, you can soak the blade in warm white vinegar for a day or so and the "nasties" (scale) mentioned above will soften and come off with a little light scrubbing with your final grit.
Interesting design, hope you will post finished pics.


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Old 10-23-2012, 09:18 PM
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carl is right about the vinegar........And you can clean it up with some fine steel wool....Another ...carl


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Old 10-23-2012, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crex View Post
If you wash the blade well with soap an water after the HT process, you can soak the blade in warm white vinegar for a day or so and the "nasties" (scale) mentioned above will soften and come off with a little light scrubbing with your final grit.
Interesting design, hope you will post finished pics.
Thanks for the tip Carl. I will definately do this. I will also post finished pics....when i get there. Iv got 12 hours in this one already. granted it is my first and i kept changing things!
i take it everywhere with me at every stage and inspect it whenever i have a spare minute. its amazing the things i pick up that i would otherwise miss at the bench. I do have a tendancy to rush things and iv found that knifemaking slows me down a bit

Cheers
Rick


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Old 10-24-2012, 09:06 AM
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Is your grind truly flat or is it more convex? I ask because it really blends in. When I look at the profile I can hardly tell that it has a bevel ground on it. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It seems to give it a very clean and flowing appearance. I'm just curious about the nature of the bevel since no distinguishable plunge line seems to exist. Did you intentionally blend the transition between the tang and blade bevel?
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cbsmith111 View Post
Is your grind truly flat or is it more convex? I ask because it really blends in. When I look at the profile I can hardly tell that it has a bevel ground on it. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It seems to give it a very clean and flowing appearance. I'm just curious about the nature of the bevel since no distinguishable plunge line seems to exist. Did you intentionally blend the transition between the tang and blade bevel?
Well it is a bit of a combo file job. I have no grinder so its all hand filed. The first half of the bevel from the edge back is flat and the next half to the spine is convex. Im glad you said it looks clean and flowing because that is the exact look i was going for! I did blend the bevel into the tang which is something i have also incoperated into my next knife. Cheers for the comments!


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Old 10-25-2012, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seemus7 View Post
.... (referring to bevel) next half to the spine is convex. I did blend the bevel into the tang which is something i have also incoperated into my next knife.
Great looking knife so far!!
I am curious about the above statement. If your primary bevel runs up "to the spine"... and it is convex..... and this convex bevel continues ("blends") into the tang area.... this may make make it a challenge regarding fit & finish depending on your handle scale design/choice of material.
If the tang itself (or any portion under the scales) is convex (as opposed to flat) then the scales you attach would have to be equally concave in order to achieve a tight and clean fit. This would be difficult with wood or other rigid materials especially if the tang's convexity is not completely uniform or machined as such along with the scales' concavity.
Or.... perhaps you'll be using a flexible scale material that will conform?
Curious.
Keep up the good work!


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Last edited by rockhound; 10-25-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockhound View Post
Great looking knife so far!!
I am curious about the above statement. If your primary bevel runs up "to the spine"... and it is convex..... and this convex bevel continues ("blends") into the tang area.... this may make make it a challenge regarding fit & finish depending on your handle scale design/choice of material.
If the tang itself (or any portion under the scales) is convex (as opposed to flat) then the scales you attach would have to be equally concave in order to achieve a tight and clean fit. This would be difficult with wood or other rigid materials especially if the tang's convexity is not completely uniform or machined as such along with the scales' concavity.
Or.... perhaps you'll be using a flexible scale material that will conform?
Curious.
Keep up the good work!
I already have the scales shaped from black linen micarta. I have had no challenge in acheiving a good fit as they do not extend past the flat area of the tang, Finished photos will reveal all! I just wish i could go home from work and get into it!
Thanks for your comments!
Cheers


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Old 12-11-2012, 09:01 PM
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Finally got my blade back from HT today!!! Stay tuned for finished pics


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Old 01-20-2013, 03:35 PM
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Finished! I am happy with the blade, not so happy with the scales/pins. Iv got a bit to learn in that department. But hey its my first knife so im just stoked to have it done. Its razor sharp and held an edge after cutting tests with wood, cardboard and rope. Just needed one quick touch on the steel to bring it back so far.
Next blade is ready for HT, which i am carrying out myself after discovering we have all the equipment needed at work... Including a very flash looking hardness tester.
Cheers
Sorry for phone camera pics..




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